Papperskopia från digitala foton?

[Christerart]

up rezzing

In Photoshop CS you use 110%, bicubic smoother and depending what printer you're going to use - anything from 240 dpi to 400 - or what your lab tells you if you don't have a printer yourself. Repeat this untiol you have the output sizer you want and then you need to sharpen befoer you print or send the file to the printer.

Adobe recommends not going more than 50 % up or down when rezzing (resizing) up - Bicubic smoother - down - Bicubic sharper at any one time.

Sharpening is very important - I just posted something about that here on Fotosidan - you need to sharpen specifically depending on the kind of printer and DPI you are printing to.

Get this program, PhotoKit Sharpener:

http://www.pixelgenius.com/

It'll take care of the sharpening.

As for possible image size - I've done 30 x 40" from my first Canon D30 Jpgs (!) printed on HP wide body printer - don't remember what model - and the print was gorgeous! I print almost all my Fine Art prints at 13 x 19" or 16 x 20"...

 

[cwe]

Hej Reine,
om bilden har dimensioner över 600 pixlar, förminskar fotosidan bilden automatiskt, och då ryker ju skärpan (eftersom ingen USM körs).

Om man klickar på "förstora" kommer den riktiga bilden, med skärpa upp. Men om bilden är mellan 600 och 700 pixlar på sin största ledd, kan man inte förstora bilden (för liten skillnad, anser fs-maskinen).

-Christian

 

[rideg]

Jag kanske har missat något i resonemanget, men varför skulle det kunna bli kvalitetsmässiga problem med att göra större förstoringar från digitala kameror? Även om den absoluta upplösningen hos kopian blir mindre ju större denna är, så ökar ju den relativa upplösningen med det större betraktelseavståndet (antal pixlar/grad). Det här problemet har ju aldrig funnits när det gäller kopior från småbildskameror.

 

[mipert]

rideg skrev:
...men varför skulle det kunna bli kvalitetsmässiga problem med att göra större förstoringar från digitala kameror...

Poängen är just att det inte är det. Men det ställer en del krav på kvaliteten hos sensorn och man bör helst använda RAW när man fotograferar för att ha maximalt med information när man förstorar och lägger på skärpa.

En sak som skapar förvirring är myten att en bild skall ha en upplösning av 300ppi för att se bra ut, så är det ju inte.
Precis som kornet växer med förstoring från negativ bör man acceptera att pixlarna växer i storlek med ett digitalt original.

Jag har några väggförstoringar i 150ppi och gäster ger ifrån sig spontana applåder över mina förstoringar [skämt].
Det finns de som inte tror att det är digitalt förrän vi går nära och jag kan visa på att det inte finns filmkorn i bilden utan mer en svag pixlighet.

 

[duckyours]

När man ska interpolera upp en bild, ska man lägga USM innan och efter interpolering eller bara efter?

 

[Guero]

Du ska lägga på USM när du är klar med allt annat. Dvs när du ändrat på levels, curves, saturation, dodging and burning, etc. Många sparar en kopia av fotot när det är korrigerat (utan USM) så att man kan lägga på USM sist beroende på vilken storlek/printer/labb man använder.

H

 

[Christerart]

USM befoere and after

This depends in a large part on what kind of sensor you're using, what kind of ASA at the exposure, quality of lens, what kind of image - in short on a LOT of factors - just to add USM as you call it after everything else is done is wrong - if you ework that way you're NOT getting everything out of the image you might be able to.

Depending on the sensor - IE - the new 8 mb sony sensor used in all the new 8 mb prosumer cameras - even by Canon - is very noisy - anything ever 200 ASA and you'll see fringing and noise - this needs to be dealt with in a particular way.

And you should not use one specific USM setting for your images - they need to be sharpened depending on what kind of printer you will output to and what kind of image it is - as for resolution - some printers MUST have the image in a specific resolution - Lightjet 5000 for examp0le wants the file in 200, 305 or 406 dpi. A Fuji Pictrography 4500 Photo Printer wants these resolutions: 400, 267, 200 or 133 dpi - and if you send these printers a file with the wrong resolution your print will not come out the way you expect..=*^)


Before you start working on an image you need to know how you are going to output the image and keep that in mind at all times - it's not just to - is this right? - "tuta o kora".
It is however right that as the image is printed larger you can drop the resolution - and it will appear sharp at the normal viewing distance for that size print - and indeed - some of the HP wide body printers I've used use 150 DPI (and the file has to be in EPS)!

 

[Guero]

As I said above " Många sparar en kopia av fotot när det är korrigerat (utan USM) så att man kan lägga på USM sist beroende på vilken storlek/printer/labb man använder." Of course you need to know what your objective is with the photo before you apply sharpening.

But I must totally disagree with sharpening the photo before you resize and do all other corrections. I have never seen anyone recommending this despite reading lots and lots about it. And most people recommending this know far more about USM than I do. I have tried it myself and the results are not as good (at least for me). Try to sharpen a photo before you do anything else. Then resize and do all other corrections. Check your result. Then do the corrections as before but only apply sharpening at the very end. I would be extremely surprised if you don't see a difference in the results

H

 

[Christerart]

sharpening before

I don't know where you get your information, but depending on what equipment you use, ASA and all the other factors I mentioned before - if you shoot RAW - you should turn off all sharpening in the camera - if you can - as well as when you process the RAW to PSD and then ALWAYS do a presharpening - how much depends on the kind of image - is it film? low or high speed film? - 35 mm or medium format? - is it low res digital? is it 4 x 5 film? - is it negative of positive film? - medium res digital?, high res digital? scanning back digital? - all this needs to be taken into account for the presharpening!

The absolute best program for sharpening is PhotoKit Sharpener - and the Presharpening in built into the process you use in the program it is called "CAPTURE SHARPENING" - then you process the image - do selective sharpening - called "CREATIVE SHARPENING" and at the very last you do an "OUTPUT SHARPENING"based on the output device you'rre gong to use.

Some cameras however add quite a lot of sharpening to the image as it is processed in the camera - that's why images - usually jpg's - from some cameras look sharper right out of the camera than other brands. Canon CMOS images for example are always quite soft and can take quite a bit of sharpening - again, depending on all the factors mentioned above.

I don't know what kind of equipment you use, if you shoot RAW or other, how you print your images and to what but I can tell you from my experiences and many other pros, the process above is what gives you the very best images - it has allowed me to print tack sharp 16 x 20' from jpgs(!) - yes, jpg's from my first Canon D30's - a 3.1 MB camera - of course the CMOS and the L lenses are part of the whole process that maed this possible.

To read more about this process, go here and then to all the listed links on that page:

http://www.pixelgenius.com/sharpener/index.html

I think it'll change your mind..=*^)

 

[Guero]

You must clearly talking about something else We were earlier talking about USM and that you don't use before you do any kind of corrections to the image. You are talking about Photokit which I own but don't use consistently. Of course my workflow will be different when I use other Photoshop plugins like Photokitor NeatImage than if I only use USM in Photoshop. If you talk to or read almost any article from someone with great Photoshop knowledge they say to always apply USM at the very end. And yes that includes whatever amount of pros you want. Just do a simple comparison of USM before and after and you will see the difference. Photokit and other plugins is a totally different subject. Yes I do know images can be improved with photokit and NetImage. That won't be disputed by anyone that has tried the programs but that's not the question I was answering. Do you apply USM sharpening in photoshop before or after corrections? The answer is after. At least when you are only using Photoshop's USM.
If we are covering all sharpening plugins on the market I think we need a few more days. And if you also want to discuss RAW vs. JPG, CCD's, and different labs you will need a few more years.

H

 

[mipert]

Guero skrev:
...But I must totally disagree with sharpening the photo before you resize and do all other corrections. I have never seen anyone recommending this despite reading lots and lots about it...

En del gör faktiskt just det. Stefan Olsson, som skriver i Fotografisk Tidskrift och är en av Sveriges mest kompetente inom området, tycker att det visst är OK att skärpa innan man skickar bilder till kund som exempel. Oavsett att bilden kommer skalas ned i storlek.
Jag har för vana (numera) att alltid skärpa bilder innan jag levererar dem till kunder. Och jag är noga med att tala om det eftersom en del tryckerier lägger på skärpa per automatik innan tryck.

Och när jag skall retuschera eller frilägga bilder jobbar jag alltid i hög upplösning och med skärpa pålagt innan jag skalar ned till slutstorlek. Ofta när man skärper den i mindre storlek syns kantpixlar som inte märktes när man lade bana i oskärpt hög upplösning.
Så skall en bild användas i olika storlekar skärper jag den i hög upplösning och ger en ny skärpning efter nedskalning.

 

[Christerart]

Sharpener

You are talking about sharpening, right? HOw to sharpen for output to paper, right?

Have my post been so confusing that you have not understood that I have written about the way to sharpen - NOT using USM because it is not the best way.

I am NOT talking about PhotoKit - I am talking about PhotoKit SHARPENER - two different programs.

Perhaps I misunderstood - I thought someone wanted to know the best way to sharpen images for print - and that way is to not use USM but the program I mentioned together with all the links to read about it. I never use USM for MY sharpning - only the program I mentioned earlier.

And to sharpen in high res and then again in low res is definitely not the way to do it. Only sharpen for the exact useage at the time.

Once again - do read the links I posted - it will tell you everything you need to know about sharpening - if the links and statements on those links does not convince you then I never will - and to be honset - repeating myself over and over here is wasteful of both my time and yours...=*^)

 

[Damocles]

And as always with photoshop there is usually several paths to getting the results you want. And its never only one way that is the best. The result not only depends on what tools you use, but how you feel using them.

 

[Guero]

Christer,

Tråkigt att se att du redan har fått Dolph Lundgren syndromet efter ett par år i USA. Jag har läst alla inslag och som jag sa svarade jag på frågan om man skulle lägga på USM före eller efter.

"När man ska interpolera upp en bild, ska man lägga USM innan och efter interpolering eller bara efter?"

Jag vet att man kan få mycket bättre resultat med andra metoder men det var inte frågan. Dom links som du inkluderade har jag läst för flera år sedan men tack i alla fall. Ingen anledning för dig att upprepa dig för du talar inte om samma sak

Ooops nu skrev jag på svenska, hoppas bara att du kan förstå.... ;-) Lycka till med ditt projekt.

H

 

[RolandM]

Es kann eine natürliche Erklärung sein, wenn eine Mitgliedsänderung und Rechtschreibung während seiner Zeit am Aufstellungsort schmachten. Einige Firmen überwachen alle Internet-Kommunikation. Meine Vermutung ist, daß Firmen in Amerika es aus Terrorgründen tun, weil alles außerhalb des Landes schlecht sind.

 

[mipert]

.

 

[Christerart]

Hakan

Now you're getting personal, Hakan! A little personal attack here, right?

Too bad YOU got that attitude - but then I've runt into that quite a few times - Sweden and Swedees are always best, right - information from others are never as good as if they come from someone like you, right?

I didn't think that was was this was all about here in the forums - but, if you read all this several years ago - interesting that as the market and info changes all the time - then of course YOU know what's best. But then a lot of people I and most of the people in the business have a lot of respect for thinks a little different than you about this issue, however where I live we live and let live - we don't attack (unless we're Bush) other people for the beliefs and experiences they have.

Grow up, boy!

And, don't expect me to answer any more personal attacks from you.

 

[stranden]

eng vs. sve?

Christerart skrev:
Now you're getting personal, Hakan! A little personal attack here, right?

Han menade nog mest att du kan ta och börja skriva på svenska, om du kan.. Typ.

Är du svensk eller?

Hur som helst så senast jag kollade var detta fotosidan.se, inte photopage.com, och då skrivs det med fördel på svenska i forumet.



Visst, jag är inte den som har något emot engelska öht, tvärtom, det är ett flytande andra språk för mig, men just här på fotosidan som är svensk är det ju det som det ska vara, eller?

 

[Christerart]

English versus Swedish

I've lived abroad for the better part of 30 years and the reading of Swedish is OK - slow but p[retty decent - the writing is no good.

However, if it so offends some of you people here on the forum that I communjicate in a language other than Swedish, I guess I'll stop offering help and hints or comments.

Bye all. Have a great summer!

 

[cwe]

Over-sharpening?

Väl, hi y'all.
Nu blir det här löjligt. Christer is free to write in English, if he prefers. Det är naturligt, if one has lived abroad för ett långt tag. Och säkert fully understandable i vilket fall?

I've läst alla inlägg from both sides with much intresse, och det har varit bra bidrag från alla håll.

Skarpt jobbat, yo. Tagga ner, vetja allihop. Det är nog bara misunderstandings, don't you think?

Glada hälsningar,
Christian